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#3189 - 01/02/10 06:38 PM Prone Position
Wheelz Offline
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Registered: 24/07/09
Posts: 967
Loc: Wanganui, New Zealand (Westmer...
I've started reading "Ways of the Rifle" and found the first subject of prone position (specifically angle) very interesting.

I remember Graeme Simpson commenting on this some time ago also.

The main influences/effects are:

A straighter position gives more support and rigidity at the butt of the rifle and therefor absorbs a lot more recoil resulting in a shorter and vertical recoil.

The more angled position sacrifices some of this for a more comfortable position which can be advantagous during a long shoot. (60 shots) The angled position has the right leg bent forward allowing the tummy more room to breath easier.

What I'd like to know is how many favour a particular position and have you experimented with it?

I tend to hold more of an angle with the right leg forward (probably to do with my shape blush) but this is mainly because it's how I was first taught.
I intend to have a little play with this and see for myself.

Thoughts?
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#3191 - 01/02/10 08:32 PM Re: Prone Position [Re: Wheelz]
Environs Offline
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Registered: 20/06/09
Posts: 699
Loc: Cambridge
Great question/discusion. My 2 key thoughts are:
1. Consistancy, regardless of what position you choose the key is consistancy in using that position every time. I've seen pictures of world champion shooters that look like they are in a yoga position, it works for them, is comfortable, but key is they use exactly same position each time.
2. My position & why:
I want my left top & fore arm as close to the 30Deg as possible- for stability. As you have read Wheelz I go for as flat an angle as possible to rifle, 10-15 Deg, this is for stability and to get my head and line of sight as close as possible to bore line. I want my shoulders square to spine & head square to shoulders so that there is no chance of presuring nerves, spine or neck. I also try to get the boreline of rifle to align with centre of butt plate so recoil is transfered in as direct line as possible thru the shoulder. Head/eyes level with ground- ensures balance & equilibrium of brain is not off centre.
Now I aknowledge this requires a lot of modifacation to rifle to achieve, particularly to check piece to enable you to get your head behind sights (or you could use offset sights). I believe too many people fit around their rifle & compromise their ideal position, rather than fitting rifle to the shooter.

Hay but thats just my thoughts from lots of reading but short shooting experiance, so I'm keen to hear others thoughts, not just what they do, but why.









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Environs: "ACCURACY FOR A GIVEN SHOOTER IS LARGELY A MATTER OF WHAT THEIR MIND WILL ALLOW THE REST OF THEIR BODY TO DO."

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#3193 - 01/02/10 09:20 PM Re: Prone Position [Re: Environs]
HasBeen Offline
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Registered: 16/09/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Auckland, NZ
I used to shoot flat with my left arm having a low angle (but still legal), and shot pretty good indoor scores, however my 50m scores were a bit up and down, so I made a change, pushing out my left hand which also push my right shoulder up, also right knee was more forward, this helped my hold a lot, after this I was able to shot quicker (better hold) and scores got higher. The sling is very tight so I do have to have at least one or two breaks during a 60 shot match, anyway who can be in the zone for more than an hour. When I was training for Comm Games I was shooting 396 (for 3P) or better in training at Admore.
But remember that you can have the best position in the world but you still need to know how to aim!

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#3194 - 01/02/10 10:56 PM Re: Prone Position [Re: HasBeen]
Wheelz Offline
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Registered: 24/07/09
Posts: 967
Loc: Wanganui, New Zealand (Westmer...
Very reasuring to read your description HasBeen, as it sounds like I have a similar posture including the tight sling and the need to allow blood to return to my hand periodically at 50m.
I've been rather concerned that my position is far from what it should be but, so far, it gives me the greatest stability. Just find myself having to deal with the discomfort. Shouldn't be a problem for long tho with indoor starting soon.
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#3195 - 02/02/10 12:14 AM Re: Prone Position [Re: Wheelz]
Massimo - Max Online   content
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Registered: 22/10/09
Posts: 785
Loc: ITALY
Ciao Pete,
Every shooter has a preferred position which depends on the shoulder width and the length of the upper limbs.
This must be as comfortable as possible. Less abnormal tension fewer amomalous shots.
I prefer to shoot slightly angled and bent knee.
I push the left elbow a little to the right and tilt the rifle to the left.
I weighed the rifle on barrel and the back of the stock ( total weight kg. 7.100 / 7.200 ) .
Butt-plate straight and slightly shifted to the right, left Hook. When I systems the butt plate in the hollow of the right shoulder I try to close it like a vise and carry the most possible left.
Then I relax and raise my right elbow repeatedly trying to eliminate tensions and try to rest the right elbow as in the previous shot.
Between a shot and the subsequent I support the rifle with an alu support and reduce muscle tension.


Edited by Massimo - Max (02/02/10 08:33 AM)
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#3197 - 02/02/10 06:34 AM Re: Prone Position [Re: Massimo - Max]
Massimo - Max Online   content
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Registered: 22/10/09
Posts: 785
Loc: ITALY
I forgot ....
If you have placed the bloop tube/tuner.... raises the Front Sight of 8 mm. about.....be careful of even raise Micrometer Rear Sight, 8.00 mm..
And if you put other thicknesses please note this, avoiding the mismatch between Micrometer Rear Sight and Front Sight who must work as possible in line.
If it is elevated to 8.00 mm in front and behind you put 4 / 5, 00 mm offset the rest with a bunch of clicks and then you risk going out of scale or see strange streaks in the iris, than compensated with strange positions of head and neck (with the result of making imperfect shots )
----------------------------------------------------------
the head should be in place both inside and outside. Never disconnect the neurons


Edited by Massimo - Max (02/02/10 10:08 AM)
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#3198 - 02/02/10 08:26 AM Re: Prone Position [Re: Massimo - Max]
Wheelz Offline
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Registered: 24/07/09
Posts: 967
Loc: Wanganui, New Zealand (Westmer...
Originally Posted By: Environs
Now I aknowledge this requires a lot of modifacation to rifle to achieve, particularly to check piece to enable you to get your head behind sights (or you could use offset sights). I believe too many people fit around their rifle & compromise their ideal position, rather than fitting rifle to the shooter.


Part of me wants to agree but also part of me says that the rifle and sights are very straight and the line of recoil is also straight, should we not also be as "in-line" with this as possible (without being silly of course)?

My reasoning for this is that as we introduce off-centered equipment etc to accommodate a particular position we would also be introducing a condition where even less of a deviation would cause a greater error. (Compound and accumulated errors).

Just food for thought and ready to be refuted.
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#3199 - 02/02/10 08:42 AM Re: Prone Position [Re: Wheelz]
Massimo - Max Online   content
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Registered: 22/10/09
Posts: 785
Loc: ITALY
Every device that you add involves a change in position. You should never exaggerate, any solution should be used to actually be an advantage.
Any changes must be resolved and not to complicate the work of the shooter.
I had fallen into a bad time. I worked 3 years to resolve technical problems and mechanics on 2 Rifle (1913-9003) and I'm still working.
I resolved fairly and scores are improving. Do not underestimate the adjustment of the trigger. A trigger too hard or too light can defeat a correct position.
Relax your right shoulder and clear the mind.
---------------------------------------------------------
Feel the Force flow

May the Force be with you


Edited by Massimo - Max (02/02/10 10:09 AM)
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