Is that the 25yd or 20yd one.

Pretty sure it's 25 yard.

Hey at least the new target has a 5 on it and it's bigger so easier to hit!!!!

the bottom is the one we use now and the top is the one they are introducing soon. danny took it, so maybe 20yd???

It is the 20 yard target and we are going to lose shooters if we change the 10 size!

Nah, Greater competition creates more hunger. We are a bunch who are stimulated to achieve. As long as the ultimate goal is attainable but not too easy we will always aspire to it.

Example: Simple computer game.
You have the most enjoyment when you are getting closer to a difficult goal.
As soon as you have mastered (clocked) the game, the thrill is lost.

Don't be so serious Wheelz!

Just shoot the buggers in the Middle

What are you doing in here Danny? Thought you'd left!

Just unreal busy!

Re-awakening this topic.

After talking and listening to alot of others on this subject (some top shooters too i might add), the general consensus is, what the hell went wrong right at the start.

Apparently the executive was asked to find out if there was a difference/discrepency in the relative size between 20 & 25 yd targets and if so to come up with some options to be discussed.

So what happened? They found out there was a difference...then someone decided lets get a whole new target format and not discuss it with anyone outside our target committee and perhaps the executive.

WHY do this?
To bring us into line with the international 50m target and the english targets...WHY Oh WHY is that such a great a idea?

There is no actual necessity to change at all.
The old targets wern't broken, there just needed to be a slight adjustement to one to make them even and everyone is happy.

If the grade parameters needed to be shifted then it is a simple matter of adjusting the percentages to get more or less shooters in each grade, too simple?

The fixing the old target option will have saved TSNZ and us thousands of dollars.

I'm sure there are going to be alot of teething problems implementing the new targats.
I also believe the new testers are made of a brass alloy which will be too soft to take any knocks, also I hear they are yet to be certified.

What about the fact that the 10s will be harder to hit, but the inners will be easier? Won't this make it harder to get a decision/winner if the top shooters are hitting the middle?

What about the inevitable that is going to happen...shooters shooting lower scores???
This IS going to happen and who's to say how the older shooters, the new shooters and those shooting low inners at the moment are going to react, these shooters are the heart and sole of our clubs.
I'm of the thinking that alot will be very disgruntled at the least, if not leave the sport altogether.

All of this has been mentioned by everyone I've talked to and no one has been positive about the new targets.
Totally unnecessary and a waste of money are common comments.

It all comes back to why wasn't this brought back to us the shooters to discuss???

Sorry Bullwacka, you are being a little disingenuous. Over the last 3 years there has been lots of discussion and opportunities for everyone to have a say. Go to the TSNZ website, go to Links, and down the bottom is "targets and testers". Have a gander around that lot.

When this started, there were lots and lots of "top shooter" comments about the targets. I have to say though, being a top shooter does not necessarily mean you have this god given opinion that says your opinion is better than mine or anyone elses. There are only so many ways you can try and explain to someone that the targets are a bloody mess, are not fair and are antiquated.

ALL changes to targets over the past 60 or so years have been done to follow the rest of the smallbore world. When the rest of the world changed to meet the latest 50m targets for some inexplicable reason NZ deemed we knew best and didn't.

The big stuffup was when we changed the printer. The specs for the 20 and 25 yd targets apprear to have been measured with a ruler, rounded up or down to the nearest 0.5mm and the numbers sent away. This was done with no math involved at all.

In 1999 someone decided to act on a story that people believed 20 yds was harder than 25 yds. A set of targets, one 20 and one 25 was sent to a guy at otago Uni to measure. They ended up being correct.

What was sad was that the targets sent to the person HAD to have been a couple of old NZ printed targets - which WERE right!!!!! Why that happened is beyond me, but I can assure you, since the change of printer, I have measured a shit load of targets and I would be absolutely certain no "correct targets" have ever been printed since 1994.

And the stories that prompted the measuring have turned out to be true. Shooters knew this from practically day one of the new printed targets.

That is the story in a nutshell. We are late catching up, we need targets that are fair. So hopefully, all of TSNZ membership will give a wholehearted endorsement to the remits when they come out so that they can get our sport on a fair and even keel ASA bloody P.

Kind regards

Thanks for your reply Ross.

I've seen all that info over the years but I don't think I've seen the results of the survey yet though.
So was the majority of those who filled in the survey listened too?

I don't think I'm being disingenious. I'm only stating what members have been talking about, the above post is not something I have fabricated, they are the genuine thoughts and discussions of members I have had contact with over the last 2-3 months.

I sincerely hope that whatever target comes into force that all the members are happy with it, but at the moment there are alot who are not convinced that going to the 50m/international format is the best idea for us.

Thanks Bullwacka. Feel free to pass this story on to those with those thoughts and opinions. We obviously missed them.

Losing membership was a major reason why NZ did not change targets way back.

I made a comment about that a few years ago in the discussion and noted that I was impressed with the new names that are appearing and have appeared in the results over the last 10 years. I think it is fantastic that I don't know everybody out there.

Obviously these newbies have not found the targets a problem.

Sorry, I did not answer your question. The results of the survey were inf avour of changing the target. I will see if Noel has a copy of the results somewhere.

2010 Conference gave an overwhelming endorsement that was to get the targets changed and up and running.

Here is the link to the 2010 Conference minutes. Go to page 5.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...lh&hl=en_GB

Here is the biggie:

6. The preference is to switch to the new targets in 2012 to allow time for existing target stock to be run down.

At the end of the day we shoot at a black round shape and I can't see the score lines from 20 yards anyway. and when I look through the scope I look for that white dot. if its there where is the shot in relation to that dot. If the dot gone I have done enough onto the next shot. As long as the targets the same for everyone on the day then I'm happy. really after reading the other posts and discussions going back and pointed out by Tenpointone there has been a error of judgement in the past and what is happening is putting it right. as long as there is paper to shoot at with that black round shape and white dot then we should all be happy and get on with it.

shit there is a lot of back reading on this site and some really good posts